Darksiders 2 Deathinitive Edition Mods

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Hello, David Adams from Gunfire. I posted this in another thread, but thought I'd put this up top.If anyone is curious, here's what we did engine side.It is of course the same engine, but we rewrote huge swaths of the renderer. We wanted to bring it closer in line with more modern engines, while at the same time not dramatically changing the look of the game.Here's a list of changes we made (beware, technical jargon incoming):- Changed lighting model to be physically correct. Most modern engines use a physically correct lighting model, and the original Darksiders had a simple Phong lighting model. In practice, this doesn't have to change the way anything looks, but it allowed us to achieve more material variety - metal looking like metal, etc. It's not perfect when you are working with existing assets (because you would ultimately author the assets differently to get the full effect), but I think it adds something to the game. If you go back and look at the old game, all the materials just sort of looked like concrete.

Now there is much more variation.- Added irradiance environment maps. In the original, the ambient lighting was a flat color. In this remaster the ambient lighting comes from a cube map render of the scene.

This adds much more depth to the ambient, and creates subtle light bleeding (the lava bleeding up and casting reddish lighting on the ceiling for instance). It also means the reflections in the metal reflect the actual room, so if Death is near lava - there's a lava-ish reflection in the metail in his armor and weapons.- Improved the SSAO - it's still not great, but it's better (SSAO is my nemesis for some reason)- Implemented Filmic Tone-Mapping (the original game had no filmic tone mapping)- Improved the shadow filtering dramatically.

Less colorful than the original?It's possible that the lighting might have changed in a few areas, but it's the same textures. We just took the original high rez textures we had stored away somewhere, and took the time to hook them up in the game. Nothing new was created on that front (I wish we had been able to do this for the original PC release, but alas fate conspired against THQ to make that not possible).I know one thing people react to is the overall contrast level. The original game was VERY contrasty, to the point that many of the colors were getting crunched - at some point, instead of seeing the full gradiant of the color, it just got crunched to black. You lose a lot of information that way. When we updated the renderer, we implemented much better lighting equations, tone mapping, etc.

The result is that you are seeing the full range of the colors. The side effect is that it appears to lose contrast. You may prefer more contrast - that's a personal taste thing - but overall I think the new look is more appealing in total. Originally posted by:Less colorful than the original?It's possible that the lighting might have changed in a few areas, but it's the same textures. We just took the original high rez textures we had stored away somewhere, and took the time to hook them up in the game. Nothing new was created on that front (I wish we had been able to do this for the original PC release, but alas fate conspired against THQ to make that not possible).I know one thing people react to is the overall contrast level.

The original game was VERY contrasty, to the point that many of the colors were getting crunched - at some point, instead of seeing the full gradiant of the color, it just got crunched to black. You lose a lot of information that way. When we updated the renderer, we implemented much better lighting equations, tone mapping, etc.

The result is that you are seeing the full range of the colors. The side effect is that it appears to lose contrast.

You may prefer more contrast - that's a personal taste thing - but overall I think the new look is more appealing in total.That was just from looking at screenshots so not an expert, thanks for the response! Might be linked to the contrast element which is personal opinion some of us like lots of color, some dont really. Big fan of color though so always like more of it.So exciting to hear the original hi res textures were used! So many companies just seem to lose them or throw those assets away. Now we get to really feel it sounds like the atmosphere the devs may have originally wanted which sounds exciting.Is there a Vigil vault similar to the hidden Vigil island in Saints Row 2 in the game or any new easter eggs we should look for as adventurers not in the original?

I really appreciate the explanation on the changes. As an owner of both 1 and 2, I've been pondering whether to go for the upgrade.Long rant ahead, I'll sum up here in this sentence if your time is short. The game looks better, the description of what's been done is obvious to see. There's zero need for the original to exist anymore as any critisism that the original looks better comes from a position of ignorance.I'm a bit of a graphics head, I work in 3D but for video, not game engines but I'm very familiar with physically based rendering.

It's been a joy to watch game engines adopt it.I think two things stand out in the comparisons I've seen. The phong shade everything being beeded up a bit with physically correct lighting and some attempt at giving materials more than just that simple look the original game had, I think that's a big improvement. The other thing that videos on Youtube aren't really highlighting is the filtering.

That's just getting lost in youtube video compression. Models look much better to my eyes. At first I thought the models had been beefed up in polys but after really studying some of the shapes I can see the models are the same but they look much better in the new version.

Perhaps that's a lot to do with the lighting as well sort of bedding them down into the scene better. One of my pet hates with games is when 3D models have sharp edges.

I know its done to keep the poly count reasonable but the addition of proper bevelled edges, rounding and so on, that just makes models look more realistic than any other technique you can add to them in my opinion. So what's kinda surprising in this new version is the edges are still the same but they aren't aliasing in a nasty way.

That's the filtering thing I'm talking about. It's really doing quite a good job on the models edges across the whole game.I think one of the problems is that the super contrasty original really pops and has that consoley arcadey funk to it. When you go into any big store that sells TV's, they don't show you the accurate colour handling of the TV, they whack it up as bright and contrasty as they can because people naturally gravitate towards that, even though it would look terrible in the home losing a lot of detail. So while the new lighting is more accurate and I'm sure much better to play in, not enough people are educated in what that means and they just see the new version looks duller, it doesn't pop anymore. Very unfair I know as when effects that are bright are used, the game screenshots I've seen are just as bright as the original.I'd say if you were new to the game, this is the version to own, there's no need for the original to exist anymore.

The fact I have to pay to upgrade doesn't bother me. There's a lot of real work been done here and I've no problem paying for that. When we get free upgrades I'm happy the business can handle it but we should never expect these things for free.Looking forward to what comes next. My question would be:How do you do your cross-build system?I'm picturing it's all one code base for all platforms, 98%+ common code/resources/scripts, with specific overrides for platform specific abstractions, like control handling, then pushed out to Exes and dev console images for testing.I wonder, because the development cycle I'm seeing out of a lot of more recent cross-platform games seems almost allergic to spending time really optimizing any one control system - are you adverse in one way or another to from doing much work on the non-shared code? Cool - thanks for the time, and nice responses!I like your scripting/event systems - you do a good job of keeping the flow going most of the time.

Lua scripts triggering a mix of system responses, I take it?Do you use anything special to detect bottlenecks? Did any of your testers use any scripts to detect resource usage? I'm always interested in how folks find out what works and what doesn't on such projects. Feel free to gloss over anything - don't want to waste your 'down' time overexplaning anything.Thanks again! Originally posted by:Cool - thanks for the time, and nice responses!I like your scripting/event systems - you do a good job of keeping the flow going most of the time. Lua scripts triggering a mix of system responses, I take it?Do you use anything special to detect bottlenecks?

Did any of your testers use any scripts to detect resource usage? I'm always interested in how folks find out what works and what doesn't on such projects. Feel free to gloss over anything - don't want to waste your 'down' time overexplaning anything.Thanks again!We actually had our own scripting system that I wrote (fondly named DaveScript), and a visual scripting system. If I could go back in time I just would have used Lua, or something similar - but it was fun to write a scripting system.We had to write a lot of debug commands to monitor script CPU usage and resources. On top of that we had a bunch of debug tools to look at CPU time (broken down using custom macros in the code to instrument), GPU time, etc. There were also exhausitive resource views to show how much stuff was loaded (textures, models, animations, sounds, etc.)It would have been a lot easier had the game not been mostly seemless.

If we just loaed into dungeons or something (like Zelda does), our lives would have been much easier! Originally posted by:Why was Darksiders 2 taken off the Steam storefront?Hey Chain Smoker,I can't answer that one honestly. You would have to direct that question to Nordic, we just do the actual game work.If you already had the original, you can still access it. I guess removing it from the store front precludes you from purchasing the old version, and forces new buyers to only buy the updated version.If I had to hazard a guess, I would think it might be confusing to have two versions of the same game. What if you bought the original without realizing there was an updated version? Over time the price differential will resolve itself, and you will essentially be able to get a better version for the same price (that includes all the DLC btw, so it's a better overall deal).I can honestly say that, barring a few bugs that we will work out as quickly as we can, the new version is the superior version. I love the franchise - poured almost of a decade of my life into it, and we did our best to make sure the new version would be the 'Deathinitive' version.Pardon our dust for now, but we will get it sorted, and there will be no reason to get the old version.

Originally posted by:We actually had our own scripting system that I wrote (fondly named DaveScript), and a visual scripting system. If I could go back in time I just would have used Lua, or something similar - but it was fun to write a scripting system.We had to write a lot of debug commands to monitor script CPU usage and resources.

On top of that we had a bunch of debug tools to look at CPU time (broken down using custom macros in the code to instrument), GPU time, etc. There were also exhausitive resource views to show how much stuff was loaded (textures, models, animations, sounds, etc.)It would have been a lot easier had the game not been mostly seemless.

If we just loaed into dungeons or something (like Zelda does), our lives would have been much easier!Yeah - chunk systems are fun. Good old placeholder geometry showing a delayed/bad load! I've been loving Python myself lately, for my own scripting systems to validate outputs and generate reports in a larger system. Reminds me of another DS-named game series, Dungeon Siege - seamless geometry, had some friends that made a mod for that to remake two Ultima games in that engine.

Fun stuff!Thanks for the time - have a great weekend (if applicable). Originally posted by Galshin.Hi Galshin, I have some questions/comments for you although they aren't really engine related, more design choice questions. I realise it's probably too late to address these for Darksiders 2, but something to think about for DS3:1. I read your post saying you designed some of the bosses. You did a lot of 'monster roar' intros for a lot of the big enemies. This was kind of cliche, and there were a lot of them. Were you aware of this trope repeating or was it a 'not seeing the wood for the trees' kind of thing?2.

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How come the story DLC is still accessed via the main menu? It's kind of clunky and even I can think of ways to make it feel more integrated (eg. Have some appropriate characters give side quests and create teleporters like the one the goes to Earth to get back/forth from the areas).I realise both questions are kind of pointed, so I'l just finish by saying I love Darksiders and I love your work. Glad to see the franchise still kicking. Originally posted by Galshin.Hi Galshin, I have some questions/comments for you although they aren't really engine related, more design choice questions. I realise it's probably too late to address these for Darksiders 2, but something to think about for DS3:1. I read your post saying you designed some of the bosses.

You did a lot of 'monster roar' intros for a lot of the big enemies. This was kind of cliche, and there were a lot of them. Were you aware of this trope repeating or was it a 'not seeing the wood for the trees' kind of thing?2. How come the story DLC is still accessed via the main menu? It's kind of clunky and even I can think of ways to make it feel more integrated (eg. Have some appropriate characters give side quests and create teleporters like the one the goes to Earth to get back/forth from the areas).I realise both questions are kind of pointed, so I'l just finish by saying I love Darksiders and I love your work.

Glad to see the franchise still kicking.Nothing pointed about those questions at all.I had never made a boss before Darksiders. Heck, I'd never made a console game. I think at the time big bosses, big roars were sort of a 'thing.' God of war did it, everyone was doing it. We had a tremendous amount of pressure to compete with God of war, and I think that bled into many aspects, incuding the bosses.

On Darksiders 2 we just continued the tradition without thinking about it. Which is kind of 'not seeing the wood for the trees.' In retrospect, there are always things you would change. I think subtlety is something often overlooked in game design, but when used properly is quite powerful.

The same can be said about range and contrast. If everything is big bad thump you in the chest loud and monstrous, then that waters down the impact. You need small to have big, dark to have light, beauty to have horror - you need contrast!As for the DLC. We had considered integrating them into the main game. I would have LOVED to do that. Even originally at THQ I was never happy with having them loaded off the main menu. At the end of the day it was a matter of resources and time, not a lack of desire that dictated the decision.

In the remaster it would have taken a lot of scalpel work to cut them into the main game, and we simply didn't have the time.